
It’s an understatement to say that progressives are pissed off at Tuesday’s outcome in Maine. A legislative marriage victory for same-sex couples in the state was shattered when a bare majority vote stripped those couples of their Constitutional rights. It’s a scenario we saw in California last year with Proposition 8. In fact, Maine’s hate campaign mirrored that of California when it relied on fear tactics to achieve success. The nasty lives we lead.
What’s interesting about Maine is that the class question seems to be front and center, in contrast with California where the black community was initially (and wrongfully) blamed for punching the Prop 8 nuclear switch for couples there. It was never a question of “class” in California (more accurately, the role of fear in politics), but class analysis has smothered Maine these past few days like butter on a fresh lobster.
Today, a colleague circulated a piece from UNDERNEWS — the online report of the Progressive Review, a Maine publication edited by Sam Smith — titled “The Gay Marriage Defeat.” While I had a question about the accuracy of Maine being the “second” state to allow same-sex couples to marry (Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa and Vermont — Indeed California prior to Prop 8 — came before Maine’s 2009 legislation), the piece offers a fresh perspective and combines some commentary from other reputable sources.
To expand on a point in the article, in 1788 James Madison wrote that “It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part. Different interests necessarily exist in different classes of citizens. If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure.” [The Federalist No. 51]
I finished the article and scrolled down and, naturally for any public issue like this, the comments begged to be torn apart. They silently gnawed at me so, being a bit hungry myself, I took a stab and began to chew. Here is the carnage that ensued (I come in about half-way):
Anonymous said…
Sam – I think you’re missing an important point in this debate. A man and woman joined together is the only way we get procreation … absolutely essential to the survival of society. As such, it deserves a unique place in society, and that is what marriage has been. If gays want rights of marriage, most (all?) of those are available through other means than changing the name and position of marriage. Because marriage is both religious and civil things get unnecessarily complicated.
November 4, 2009 8:56 PM
Anonymous said…
Consider the possibility that it wasn’t the Catholic Church’s crude homophobia, but instead gays’ and progressives’ hysterics that swung the vote.
November 4, 2009 9:35 PM
Grand Junction, CO said…
Anonymous-Procreation and marriage are not synonymous. I am going to go out on a limb and hypothesize that a civil recognition of a same sex couple is not going to drop the birth rate to zero. Marriage does exist in both religious and civil contexts. If a church does not want to recognize same sex marriage, fine. If a church wants to dictate who can and can’t be recognized in a civil context, not fine. Separation of church and state…absolutely essential to the survival of American society.
November 4, 2009 11:49 PM
Anonymous said…
Marriage originally was unrelated to the raising of children and all those claiming otherwise are largely ignorant of history. Marriage began as a way for wealthy and powerful families to control and increase their wealth through contracts and dowry arrangements. It had nothing to do with love or “family values”. It was a civil, economic contract. That is what civil marriage still is.
While religions have a say in their blessing of a particular union, such blessings are not legal in and of themselves without a civil marriage license. However, it is perfectly legal to have a civli marriage that is not blessed in any way by any religion. In other words, legally speaking marriage is still a civil and economic contract. As such, individual religions should not be allowed to impose their definitions of marriage on those that do not share their beliefs.
November 5, 2009 10:26 AM
Christopher said…
The point re marriage and procreation is well-taken. Only problem is this: how exactly would affording all citizens the right of marriage (gay or straight) threaten procreation in any way? It’s a simple question with a simple answer: it doesn’t.
November 5, 2009 11:17 AM
Christopher said…
But it is worth exposing the warped rhetoric: “…as such, it deserves a unique place in society, and that is what marriage has been.”
What affording marriage to same-sex couples does threaten is the status quo — something cherished by conservatives and essential for the preservation of many a religious institution (exclusion/privilege vs. inclusion/equality).
Shall we cut the crap and call attention to the pink elephant in the room?
November 5, 2009 11:22 AM
wellbasically said…
Societal strictures against homosexuality are there for a reason, to encourage procreation. So people who are on the fence sexually have to be straight if they want to have sex. From an evolutionary standpoint procreation is essential not just to your genes but to your village-level society.
In addition, the favor placed on the heterosexual married is not something that’s easy to take away. (“Now that I’m married, at least everybody knows I’m not gay.”)
I’m not against gay marriage but it makes sense to understand where these people are coming from, and they’re coming from a natural place. It’s no surprise that the poorest section Maine opposes gay marriage; they have fewer things that make them feel valuable.
I know this is impossible to get through to “progressives” but if you just encouraged growth and wealth in those people you would have a lot easier time with gay marriage. Your own anti-growth tax policies and regulations are harming your social agenda.
November 5, 2009 12:54 PM
Christopher said…
Homosexuality exists in nature, and therefore is natural. If only to curb population, biological evolution has authored homosexuality for a reason. When in doubt, consult science.
Do not confuse religious agenda with that of biological evolution. As many Christian faiths dictate, for instance, the world was created in 6 days. To say that “these people are coming from a natural place” is incorrect. They are instead coming from a man-made place: religious ideology.
Religious ideology was not invented by nature. Both man and his natural tendencies, however, were created by nature. Empirical evidence trumps “faith” in this case.
Get it straight. (No pun intended.)
November 5, 2009 1:42 PM
Christopher said…
In closing: Mother Nature (genes, propagation of the species, etc.) is a diverse creature and is not limited by our rudimentary societal views and principles.
Why is it that our species has a collective brain-freeze when it comes to acknowledging this?
November 5, 2009 1:48 PM
wellbasically said…
I didn’t claim it was unnatural. It’s certainly possible that homosexuality is important to humans as a way to have sex and not procreate when it is not environmentally advantageous to procreate.
However it is in the interest of the species to multiply and that’s why homosexuality is discouraged in every human society. At the village level it was important to replenish and expand the young people to do the jobs for the village and take care of the old people. Our society is not really so different.
Some extreme lefties, it is true, hope that humans become extinct. And those on the right believe that humanity should expand its use of the earth and so on. So the procreation debate does in fact relate directly to politics and economics.
November 5, 2009 4:00 PM
Christopher said…
Again, I understand your point. But survival of the species is not about replenishing our numbers anymore — something that may have had merit in our distant past, but no longer holds true.
There are many possible reasons as to why biological evolution might introduce homosexuality into the equation in order to control an increase in population: right now, I would say there are about 6.7 billion of them.
I agree with your assessment of procreation correlating to politics and economics (an argument for another time), but the challenge here is to appreciate how religious ideology should never be a reason to afford rights to some but not others.
Those who would do so are traveling a slippery slope; it’s only a matter of time before the status quo turns back on them. To bring this back to evolution, natural selection and competition illustrate how many isolated events over a period of time can fiercely change the playing field in the long run. And tampering with human rights is to tamper with nature.
November 5, 2009 4:44 PM
Read UNDERNEWS’ “The Gay Marriage Defeat”
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